Fair dice | Castle in the Air http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/ Thoughts on games and other passions Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:07:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 Fair dice | Castle in the Air http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-8 Alec Bings Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:36:54 +0000 http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-8 Too true about the romance of dice! The superstitions surrounding them (and the money expended on them) are astonishing and, frankly, fun. Little slips of paper (didn't they used to call the "chits"?) and computer programs just don't have the same feel. Have you ever seen a magician doing "dice stacking"? It's sort of like juggling with casino dice and a leather cup. It can be quite beautiful. It has <em>nothing</em> to do with games, per se, but certainly captures that romance! Too true about the romance of dice! The superstitions surrounding them (and the money expended on them) are astonishing and, frankly, fun.

Little slips of paper (didn’t they used to call the “chits”?) and computer programs just don’t have the same feel.

Have you ever seen a magician doing “dice stacking”? It’s sort of like juggling with casino dice and a leather cup. It can be quite beautiful. It has nothing to do with games, per se, but certainly captures that romance!

]]> Fair dice | Castle in the Air http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-7 Corey Porter Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:38:40 +0000 http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-7 Also important to remember is that there's zero romance in computerized dice. It's definitely a "fly the nerd flag high and proud" sort of a thing. As for number of rolls, I don't think that I've ever stopped to count. Nina, when you wrote down the real rolls, how many did it come out to? I'll laugh (at myself) if it's ~36. I'll guess that it's pretty close to that for games without expansions. Also important to remember is that there’s zero romance in computerized dice. It’s definitely a “fly the nerd flag high and proud” sort of a thing.

As for number of rolls, I don’t think that I’ve ever stopped to count. Nina, when you wrote down the real rolls, how many did it come out to? I’ll laugh (at myself) if it’s ~36. I’ll guess that it’s pretty close to that for games without expansions.

]]> Fair dice | Castle in the Air http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-5 Alec Bings Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:14:23 +0000 http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-5 Good point of about Settlers having so few rolls! After I posted, I thought back and remembered how few turns a game is likely to have. I guess Settlers is an obvious place where people <i>want</i> to try this, as the bell curve is explicitly built into the game (to the point that the best resource generating numbers are shown in a different color!). At the very least, though, I know I'm going to use what I believe are "fairer" real dice the next time I play. And really, I wouldn't want to give up dice. There's something fun about holding and shaking and throwing them. Even my two-year-old daughter (under supervision, of course) enjoys sorting through my bag full of polyhedrons and sorting them by shape, color, or some other algorithm known only to her. Good point of about Settlers having so few rolls! After I posted, I thought back and remembered how few turns a game is likely to have.

I guess Settlers is an obvious place where people want to try this, as the bell curve is explicitly built into the game (to the point that the best resource generating numbers are shown in a different color!).

At the very least, though, I know I’m going to use what I believe are “fairer” real dice the next time I play.

And really, I wouldn’t want to give up dice. There’s something fun about holding and shaking and throwing them. Even my two-year-old daughter (under supervision, of course) enjoys sorting through my bag full of polyhedrons and sorting them by shape, color, or some other algorithm known only to her.

]]> Fair dice | Castle in the Air http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-4 Nina Simon Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:23:35 +0000 http://castle-in-the-air.com/2007/07/09/fair-dice/#comment-4 My husband is obsessed with this idea. He convinced a crew of people--once and only once--to play with a set of slips of paper in a hat that contained a double set of all the dice combinations with their correct probabilities. There was a third identical set that got phased in when exactly 36 "rolls" had been taken out of the hat, and then replaced, etc. It was, depending on who you ask, a logistical nightmare or an interesting experiment. Bottomline, the randomness difference was not significant (we played again and wrote down all our dice rolls) enough to justify the extreme inelegance of the experience. Games like Settlers have so few rolls in them that I don't think you can create a "fair dice" that will have significant impact without seeming too probabilistic. But I can imagine him wanting to see how this application would affect the experience... good thing we live off the grid and dice are about as high tech as it gets at home. :) My husband is obsessed with this idea. He convinced a crew of people–once and only once–to play with a set of slips of paper in a hat that contained a double set of all the dice combinations with their correct probabilities. There was a third identical set that got phased in when exactly 36 “rolls” had been taken out of the hat, and then replaced, etc.

It was, depending on who you ask, a logistical nightmare or an interesting experiment. Bottomline, the randomness difference was not significant (we played again and wrote down all our dice rolls) enough to justify the extreme inelegance of the experience.

Games like Settlers have so few rolls in them that I don’t think you can create a “fair dice” that will have significant impact without seeming too probabilistic. But I can imagine him wanting to see how this application would affect the experience… good thing we live off the grid and dice are about as high tech as it gets at home. :)

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